Nothing to add...(An Alice amazing message!)

(In some ways this is my answer to an aggressive comment about my frequent use of the words intellectual and petit-bourgeois. 

I thought using the three messages below  would be a perfect answer)

 "No one is just like anyone else. Not better or worse. They are someone else entirely. And if two people agree, it’s based on a misunderstanding.” (J-P Sartre)

Alice:

Thanks Juan for starting this thread. The pervasive perception of only one "political correctness of certain posters" is indeed one of the stimuli to my posting - but it hasn’t done a thing except heighten animosity - your quote and Vladimir's style has been far more effective. it was most strange to me to encounter this narrow-mindedness in this group, since CS is supposed to celebrate the diversity of people and their thinking - however most people here seem to mouth an embrace of diversity while having very narrow ideas of acceptable (political/philosophical) thinking, and even wanting to impose it on others, with a "means justifies the ends" attitude! So perhaps I am narrow - I like the ideal of democracy - even if it may never be achieved, and I like the idea of each person having individual responsibility - even if I know that we live as social beings and we cannot be completely self-made or independent as we cannot live without the help (and hindrance) of others - however that may be organized.

Charles:

Alice: you wrote, "however most people here seem to mouth an embrace of diversity while having very narrow ideas of acceptable (political/philosophical) thinking, and even wanting to impose it on others, with a "means justifies the ends" attitude!"

I would be comfortable with this statement if you had used the word 'some' instead of 'most'.

"We are diverse in our opinions as well as our colours, backgrounds, languages, cultures etc."

Alice:

MY PERCEPTION IS THAT OF "MOST" AND IT FORMED BY THE # OF POSTS MADE BY ACTIVE MEMBERS - YOU ARE CORRECT I HAVE NO IDEA ABOUT THE 10000 MEMBERS WHO DO NOT POST AN OPINION. YOU PERCEPTION MAY BE DIFFERENT - INDEED, IT IS THROUGH DIVERSITY OF PERCEPTIONS, CONCLUSIONS, OPINIONS AND THOUGHT PROCESSES THAT WE HAVE DIVERSITY AT ALL! IF WE WERE JUST PARROTS, ALL STUDENTS WOULD BE GRADED A+!

 Thanks Alice and Charles for these messages. They could be the gospel of all forums: freedom of speech and tolerance to all opinions. They reflect perfectly what I think. Normally one should be free to express oneself, express divergent opinions, maybe shocking ones for some stuck up people, To be non-PC in a a petit-bourgeois molded world should not be a problem but in the contrary seen as a source of ´positive and fruitful enrichment. Unfortunately this is not the case here where some prudish petit-bourgeois conformist mold is ruling. If we do not respect it either we are assaulted, boycotted and even blocked causing us a problematic suspension, a not insignificant consequence.

Alice, you summed it all with your last sentence: "If we were just parrots, all students would be graded A+!"

"No one is just like anyone else...." + "We are not parrots!"

"No one is just like anyone else. Not better or worse. They are someone else entirely. And if two people agree, it’s based on a misunderstanding.” (J-P Sartre) 
 

S.:

Thanks Juan for starting this thread. The pervasive perception of only one "political correctness of certain posters" is indeed one of the stimuli to my posting - but it hasnt done a thing except heighten animosity - your quote and G.'s style has been far more effective. it was most strange to me to encounter this narrowmindedness in this group, since CS is supposed to celebrate the diversity of people and their thinking - however most people here seem to mouth an embrace of diversity while having very narrow ideas of acceptable (political/philosophical) thinking, and even wanting to impose it on others, with a "means justifies the ends" attitude! So perhaps I am narrow - I like the ideal of democracy - even if it may never be achieved, and I like the idea of each person having individual responsibility - even if I know that we live as social beings and we cannot be completely self-made or independent as we cannot live without the help (and hindrence) of others - however that may be organized.

D.:

E, you wrote, "however most people here seem to mouth an embrace of diversity while having very narrow ideas of acceptable (political/philosophical) thinking, and even wanting to impose it on others, with a "means justifies the ends" attitude!"

E: "I would be comfortable with this statement if you had used the word 'some' instead of 'most'.

We are diverse in our opinions as well as our colours, backgrounds, languages, cultures etc."

S.:

"MY PERCEPTION IS THAT OF "MOST" AND IT IT FORMED BY THE # OF POSTS MADE BY ACTIVE MEMBERS - YOU ARE CORRECT i HAVE NO IDEA ABOUT THE 10000 MEMBERS WHO DO NOT POST AN OPINION. YOU PERCEPTION MAY BE DIFFERENT - INDEED, IT IS THROUGH DIVERSITY OF PERCEPTIONS, CONCLUSIONS, OPINIONS AND THOUGHT PROCESSES THAT WE HAVE DIVERSITY AT ALL! IF WE WERE JUST PARROTS, ALL STUDENTS WOULD BE GRADED A+!"

 Thanks S. for these two messages.  

"As long as we remember someone..." but...

 Some time ago I shared  a sad episode in my family life, the deportation of my young aunt. But after a few nice comments some weird and  ignorant comments, the same tune as usual, showed  up assimilating the holocaust with the present Palestinian situation. Other comments were alluding about the fact we are heading towards the same catastrophe and the usual "we should be careful it does not happen gain" and to "the disgusting politicians". Eventually a very violent message was alluding fiercely to a new  “scapegoating” against Palestinians like the one the Jews suffered in the past.  

 This insistence in muddling up the deportation issue with the Palestinian problem is most unwelcome at least in my topic. naturally  people  share a sensibility about other issues and I respect their opinions. But when one feels so concerned by a cause why not start a topic...? Are people sincere? I am far from being sure: beer activism that's about it.

 

A toon is worth more than a speech

One more toon about the same topic: the ruling hypocrisy of the (intellectual or not) bourgeoisie. These toons are not aggressive and are not meant are not at all to "trigger" whatever polemic discussions. They reflect facts: the egoism of the politically correct and well thinking class. Actually they do not care about the true problems of our society when they do not deal with their own class. And yet they march for good consciousness...

 Repression of the Oaxaca farmers goes on

Of the good thing of being a Frenchie in the US

...The ruling hypocrisy...

French elections: there is no fatality

  So Emmanuel Macron won. Crushing the archeo-left and the extreme-right. He won with a huge margin and it would have been a bigger one with  the millions who voted for the extreme-leftist candidate Melenchon (the local Saunders) . They should have understood the tremendous importance of such election. In the US the ex-Bernie fans did not understand/or accepted the loss of their  icon and did not vote... Here  they are with Donald Trump and their useless endless marches.

I voted for the first time in fifteen years at least in the Lycee Francais-Mexicain in Polanco a chic area of Mexico City. On my back I had a wonderful and copious fresh fruit salad  and had walk around to the Soumaya Museum, the present of billionaire Carlos Slim to Mexico. One the many museum Salvador Dali's works was on display outside: the Spatial Elephant.

(Consolation du votant)

(Soumaya Museum)

(Dali outside Soumaya Museum)

Political maturity or "Let's be serious!"

 For the second round of the French presidential elections there are still candidates: Marine Le Pen (Front National), extreme right and Emmanuel Macron (Center and "all the rest" from classical left to classical right.) The minor leftist and rightist candidates were eliminated so we could expect them to vote in favor of macron since they defend the values of democracy. Not at all!

A big fringe of the new Chavez inspired leftist party "Les Insoumis " mostly students and intellectuals rejects the idea. According to them it would be voting between the plague and the cholera. It seems and by large that a majority of these people will vote for Macron, winning with 64% of the votes. Given the French electoral system never an extreme right candidate will reach the absolute majority: 50%+1.

(An asshole who vote will always have more weight than
two intellectuals who abstain)

   This is the big difference between the French electoral system which respects the majority and the  US one. Even if Hillary Clinton won in votes she lost because of the United States antidemocratic electoral system.  However this problematic situation could have been avoided. At least one million abstention votes were missing to Clinton to win in key states. And which were these votes? Mostly the frustrated students and intellectuals who wanted "Sanders for presiden" and later said: “Clinton- Trump: same corruption!” And here we are: Trump is elected president for at least four  years while in France people, even the ones opposed to Macron will in general mobilize themselves to vote. This has a name: political maturity or political consciousness.

Actually the same million of abstainers was marching later in Washington for women’s rights: too late. And what about the rights of the 3/5 millions "undocumented "Mexican workers who are going to be deported? Nothing. Another aspect of the American hypocrisy and well-thinkingness  

(Why did not we vote?

The psycho London dentist

 Unexpected readings in a Couchsurfing forum

Long ago one John, a strange London dentist, was harassing me so much online in a gay and lesbian hosting topic I had to stop participating. He was obsessed  in having me "justify", "clarify" what I was writing. I was not allowed to dissent. It is is a pity to needstop participating in a thread not to be permanently assaulted. I would have flagged him (reported him) but I do not go for this kind of practice. After all these discussions are no more than some air in the wind even though  if it is kind of frustrating to suffer these diktats. It is a pity also when someone like me in a topic like gay and hosting and knowing a lot  about the issue has to give way to someone who knows only in theory, at least officially... Like so many members John loved to write  in long tirades to impose his point of view on topics like politics, environment. A coincidence? Lately we learnt this problematic person sent a private mail to one of the  Couchsurfing members about group members psychiatric issues... 

"John, shortly after I joined this group, you contacted me on your own initiative by private message to inform me that a very significant proportion group members had psychiatric issues.
I won’t quote (for now) the wealth of psychiatric terms you used to describe the pathologies of group members you have never met.
[For the record, John also identified a handful of people he thought were worthy of being listened to.]

 What was the basis, John, for your statement that multiple group members had psychiatric problems,and listing many of those problems?
Do you have more exhaustive information about your fellow group members than I have about Trump?"

As for me I always thought John was a psychotic (as well as closet gay from what some posts in a Gay Lesbian hosting world thread suggest). Actually by discouraging all contributors John killed the topic.

Copy of the mail to CS after March 15 suspension

   "Hi Couchsurfing team

It seems that since yesterday early afternoon I have been suspended. It is like a shock for me since I again cannot imagine anything, any post  which could explain it, I mean what could have caused, especially in such a short time since I came back from vacation early February. So there must have been enough "blocks” of "flags" to justify it. From what two  friends confirm me there is absolutely NOTHING which can justify it.

More than ever it seems a group is playing against some members for reasons we do not know. Please could you do a maximum to clear to the situation for me?

Otherwise this situation leads to a lot of "unfounded suspicions."

Altogether there is a need to avoid this situation to be repeated and repeated in the future. It leads only to a frustrating self-censorship if not leading eventually by force to have us leave these groups. The only solution would be to enable each one to block completely members who show permanent aggressiveness and hostility so they could contribute in peace in groups life. So no contamination of in the exchanges the good vibes. Of course the members who flagged us might not be allowed to do it again (and again!) to avoid the same problem with more members.

So again I like to know what happened really: this is becoming a  real problem. Last time it happened to me in December while I was preparing a trip to New York, looking for a couch and information. Now there is soon a CouchCrash in Mexico City so I am cut off from the organization and events at least through the CS site.

  I am not the only one and by far suffering the same situation so please take this mail into consideration hoping it could contribute to a solution in the future.

Greetings

JeanJuan"

Couchsurfing: what about gays and lesbians?

QUESTION:

Niraj:

Bombay

Do Gay or Lesbian surfers get less Hosts all around the world?

Or is it more common in Asia and other third world countries, but it is okay in America and Europe?

I see some famous gay and lesbian groups on Couchsurfing, especially gay groups, are such groups allowed freely on Couchsurfing or do they face some problems?

Wilhem:

Bern 

Couch Surfing is no dating platform therefore in my hosting practise I never ask surfers of their sexual orientation. I have hosted the majority of my surfers male, female, couples male/female, couples male/male, couples female/female, groups mixed or only male/female, and quite many families with children, from most of my guests I have no idea how they are sexually oriented, however we have discussed sexual issues because it came naturally to talk about sex. 

his a common place: quite a fewhosts ignore about the sexuality of their guest. But usually it comes out so i tis about the same. But do many  gay and lesbian hosts or surfers do not show the ir sexual inclination? I doubt. But of course we have people like the closet gays but this is another story.

A host place is certainly no hotel room and as such does not offer enough guaranteed privacy to have sexual relations, so I think that people who write about their sexual orientation in couch requests might stand a slightly worse chance of getting hosted,

So a straifgt couple could have sexual relations but not a gay/lesbian one?

Paolo

Verona

most of my few male surfers were gay and always found couches quite easily.

Actually themale gusts you received do not seem to be gay.How do you know...? Do you thck their profiles and before and after to see how many references they have?
personnally I never believe in such asertions like the one above:" I have no idea etc...

Eugene:

 Nancy 

Yes gay or lesbian get less hosts around the world

But straight ones too, there is just less and less people hosting

And so much power hosts gave away

Interesting... Are you sure there are less and dless peole hosting? Sorces. But as for powe hosts theyjust lost interst after passion, that's common but they ar enot the bulk of hosts, they always hosted many guests.

Paolo:Verone

CS has a very strong gay community and many groups, DESPITE THIS NOT BEING A DATING SITE, dedicated to sexual practices. 

CS doe snot have a big gay community and even less gay groups. Most if not all of them atre moribund or dead, like most sstraight group actually.

 (...)

Beatrix:

Amsterdam

The simple fact that someone is gay/lesbian and likes to meet other people who are gay/lesbian, be it through a text on their profile or via joining a group which names indicates so, doesn't mean they are automatically interested in sex with every person they meet.

Right on! But some people think so unfortunately thou it is so llttle important .

 So I still don't see the what kind of problem 'some members' can have with groups like that.

Neither do I unless they are sex frustratred, would like to join but "can't." 

Niraj:

Bombay

" So I still don't see the what kind of problem 'some members' can have with groups like that."

Some members feel that since CS is not for "dating and sex", such members who are part of such groups should not be hosted by them.

Again like Betrix says why do tehy assume these mmebrs aar ein groups for sex?

GS:

Bremen, Germany

SG: careful :-) There are people here, who only host "females" and others who only host "males", and in the home section CS asks you for your "preferred gender"!  Answering that question normally (!) has nothing to do with dating / sex - often, however, with safety, or who you feel comfortable with ... Unfortunately CS only lists three genders : female, male and "any" (whatever that is?) :-)

L.

Amsterdam

"Some members feel that since CS is not for dating and sex, such members who are part of such groups should not be hosted by them"

So you think that if a gay man or a lesbian woman is a member of a gay/lesbian group, they automatically are here for dating/sex? What a narrow definition.

Paolo:

Verona

Beatix, if CS is NOT a dating site why groups revolving SO OFTEN around sexual practices are allowed?

Which groups and which sexuaal pratices?

L, does the existence of such groups may convey a wrong idea about the aim of the site which is NOT a dating site?Especilly for girls/boys new memebrs 

GS:

Don't you understand, that having a group for "gay/queer..." sufers is NOT an advertisement for sexual practises???!!! And I guess the "girls/boys" are at least 18 years old, and probably more tolerant than some people here!

AM

Munich,  

Some people have experienced harsh homophobia in their life and prefer to host or surf with other gay people. It has nothing to do with sex, it is all about feeling comfortable. I recently hosted someone who was just coming to terms with being gay himself and in his home country homosexuality is frowned upon, He found me in a gay group and I was able to take him out to his first gay bar and was able to give him advice. He now realises that he is not a freak for being gay and hopefully has left me feeling more confident in his lifes journey..

A very nice story, thanks for shating. fortunatley there are less cases like this in Western countries at least.
As for me i cannot sau I prefer to host gay men but I like it since there is no tabu between us, including the private life. While to saty with or to vinte a stratight guy may be a diiferent stror when having to listen sometimes to "girls stories" and lousy jokes

GS.

 Bremen,  

In fact: just as I sometimes prefer comparatively young males as hosts, I might prefer gay males to "straight" ones; not only, but also for "safety reasons".

Obviouly: all girls/women should look only for gays or girls/women  first for hosts.

What I am wondering though is: be it host or surfer - how / why would we know about the 'sexual orientation' of our hosts/surfers, except if they demonstrate a partnership? How many prejudices are there around? We are all just "people"!

Quite simple:. if the parner is around and is introduced for example. or it can be mentionne din the profile so that the guest wuld not be surprised. In cas eof prejudices: fuck off ;-) Two guests, a Pakistani ingeener and a Belgian hippie guest asked me if I had ncer been atracted by women. As an answer I asked: "have you ever been atrtarcted by men?" "No but it is not the same..."

PC.

Bali,  

My surfer didn't tell me he was gay until his second day at my place. I had a good time with him but I recommended to him a good host in Dortmund. (...)

 It turned y friend had another surfer and he wasn't sure how he would cope with it. It was too much worries because they got on very well🙂

Ho Ho ...This is agiant the Couchsurfing rules! People ned , ought to undessrtand that CS is like any other community. Couchsurfing is not  a sex/dating group butit may happen and why bother about it?

L:

Amsterdam

I have a (straight!) friend who out of protest wears a button on her clothing with the text (I translated it kind of literally): 'You are assuming my sexual preferences, and that's due to your prejudices.' She says that straight people are able to wear a wedding ring and no one will find that weird, but once a gay/lesbian person shows any indication of having a partner (or even simple of only being gay/lesbian) half the world suddenly thinks it's their business to ask questions about their sex life, including questions about how promiscue they might be. She finds that so unfair, hence the button.

AH.

Birmingham

I don't think I've hosted many gay people, but the ones I have don't seem to have a problem finding a host

@L
I recently got a request from someone (from a conservative country I must add) who was a member of all sorts of sex related groups including
Cocksurfing https://www.couchsurfing.com/groups/cocksurfing
Fetish Surfers https://www.couchsurfing.com/groups/fetish-surfers
Hung & Proud https://www.couchsurfing.com/groups/hung-proud

While it could be argued the last one isn't soliciting dating and just about "like-minded" or maybe "like-bodied" people, you'd be hard pushed to deny the second group wasn't soliciting dating, and the first one absolutely is.

GS:

 Bremen,  

@AH: how do people find these groups? It is telling in itself! should CS police that? And then: where to draw the line is a difficult question, but I think it would be a question of balance between honestly gender-related and openly obscene!

GS:

 Bremen 

Curiosity kills the cat: 129, 88 and 123 members - most posts without a reply , and mainly about finding a place to stay (no anwers :-)!

If anybody is so stupid to join, we will (hopefully) find it in their group list on the profile, adn know how to avoid these "idiots".

BS:

Brest

Nobody here deny the existence of these groups, you opened a thread months ago (or years?) about.

AC:

Guayaquil

Once I read:

"Nothing wrong with guys wanting other guys butts if thats what you are into, just don’t impose it on me."

Most everybody -- male, female, gay, bi, straight, et cetera -- has sexual feelings, but your writing implies that gay men lack self-control in the presence of other men.

This reminds me of how somebody accurately defined homophobia: "The fear that gay men will treat you the way you treat women."

TD:

 Manille 

I'm gay and never had problems with hosting or surfing because of my sexual orientation. I actually stayed with a lovely Muslim family in Malaysia. I even shared a bed with a couple of guys but, so far, it was all okay. Nothing happened. We had all been 'open-minded' and respectful of each other. You just need to behave well and respect their culture. Everything's gonna be okay.

I'm openly gay. But I never brought it up unless they ask me. I just don't feel like putting it on my profile or including it in my introduction because I want to be viewed as just a human being. It doesn't matter.

IO: 

Verona

Hello R, sorry but I would have warned a Muslim family of my being gay just as a sign of respect towards their religion. I mean it is great they accepted and welcomed you (many people living in Muslim countries do not actually care about religlion) but you run the risk of making them uncomfortable.

AC:

Guayaquil

I agree that "IO" comes off as ludicrous in his claim that a Muslim family should be informed about the sexual orientation of their guest. That implies that 1) IO thinks that all gay people automatically act out on their sexual feelings or 2) he thinks being gay is a moral choice. Maybe IO does too much hosting and maybe needs to start traveling more, getting to know the real world a bit in the process?

BS:

Saint-Brieuc 

A question, will an hetero guy hosted in a Catholicisme family tell them how many girls he put in his bed? Just about their sexuality.

RS

Guayaquil

Also, let's not forget all the lesbians who get hit on by straight men.

HH:

Bern 

Anybody who is different from what a bigoted or uninformed majority regards as normal, is forced to become a strong personality fearless in facing the consequences, this again in the eyes of a bigoted or ignorant society, aberrant sexuality might face or punishments by such a society might incur and needs to be ready to defend his or her chosen or in case of sexual disabilities forced upon preferences might be. Generalizing I found out that couch surfers who dare or are forced to be different in their sexual preferences are strong discussion .partners also in political discussions and never boring,

L

Amsterdam

Why more difficult? Because ignorant and discriminating people MAKE it difficult for them? As it is no ones business to ask what you do in your bedroom or to judge you upon that, why should it be anyone's business to ask about what LGTB do in their bedroom or judge them about it? Leave people as they are. No one is 'worth' more or less because of their sexual preferences.

L.

Amsterdam

Because they are ignorant or discriminating, LGBT members should hide their preferences? That's the world turned upside down.

 PC

Nancy

Is it an official gay position on everything ?

I never heard about an LGBT NGO representing officially all Gays Lesbians Trans etc

 AT:

 Arequipa

My lesbian guests were very friendly and lovely with my friends, family and me. I dont have any problem hosting lesbian surfers and I never ask to my guests about they sex preferences but is very easy know in advance with only check their facebook, instagram, twitter, etc.

GS:

Bremen

@AH. oh dear! You made me read almost the whole 7-page thread again, to see which context that quote has! A few little things: as far as I can see, I defended the right of gays and lesbians (and anything between) here to openly express themselves! And I never said, that sexuality (in itself) is obscene! I tried to imply, though, that sexual orientation should not matter on couchsurfing, as that is not (!) the main goal of CS.

Found the quote finally, so let me clarify: it was a reaction to another comment, which linked the following groups here:

Cocksurfing https://www.couchsurfing.com/groups/cocksurfing
Fetish Surfers https://www.couchsurfing.com/groups/fetish-surfers
Hung & Proud https://www.couchsurfing.com/groups/hung-proud

I guess, in that context I may be permitted at least to laugh my head off, and say that members of such groups (probably all male) are revealing themselves.

Why does this infuriate you so? Are you a member of one of them yourself?

M.

 Quebec

I didn't read any message but the lasts, but I hope those groups were reported to the safety team.

GS

 Bremen, 

No, M., they have been around for quite a long time. Actually, as said before, I am somewhat glad they exist; it helps me evaluate potential surfers :-) all these groups boast approx. 130 members, which are then easy to weed out :-)

But I am sooo "self-righteous" :-)))))))

BB 

Frankfurt 

The gay groups on cs are there to show the diversity of a community and last time I checked I found they have a very special humor and are making fun of themselves as well.

Many people joined gay groups, who are just supporters. I mean, how can we claim to be open-minded, when we draw the line between us and everybody, who is different in their preferences, their religion, their political opinions?

When I thought about joining a gay group for support I just did not do this, because I know every host and every surfer, who finds a group like these in my profile will reject me, suspicious I might be 'different' and therefore inacceptable. I actually bent down to the bigots, because I thought, I would not want to ruin my chances for getting a couch completely. And because I know how people 'tick.'

SL

 Québec,  

 I am absolutely open to hosts surfers that are LGBTQ2+ and members of normal groups regrouping them. However, I won't host sexual deviants that think that a group called "couch wan*ing" is something normal on a plateform for travellers and are active members of it ! Good Lord !

AM:

Munich

@ SL: how prudish! Alot of these groups are just for harmless fun and humour..

@AH You are taking these groups too literally...Far too literally..

   

 

The older you get,the more you realize....

Of course!

Eventually ecolo and useful!

This is what I wish for me some day!

The difficult request issue in Couchsurfing

    I shall never know why  I have been suspended last January (January 2017) when I needed the most to be in touch with the Couchsurfing world: several blockings triggered a suspension.  If some hosts pay attention to the entire profile, most  of them a lot focus on the age and gender, the two main filters even if no one wants to acknowledge it, 
Once you are over 40 years little by little it becomes more difficult to find a couch and this whatever well written the request is. So it becomes almost impossible when one is 40 years and over to find a host. True there are exceptions  but they are far from being the rule rather the exception and most elderly people have to stay in small hotels or in cheap Airbnb  sometimes of a lousy quality. This is what happened to me during my first ten days in New York. Eventually there was a small miracle and at the last minute following a public request I was invited by a host so I could stay a few more days.